what is the problem with the turbines. they have no problems and everytime i drive through baumber i feel like its some town where people murde each other if they so much as mention a turbine. it's coming to Baumber, sort it out and deal with it!

I'm for the Turbines, but Baumber is not one of those wretched places where you feel like you have to be aware of your surroundings the entire time.

I'm for the Turbines, but Baumber is not one of those wretched places where you feel like you have to be aware of your surroundings the entire time.

--- Derek(guest) 

It is if you support wind turbines. After all, what do you think BWAG acrually do all the time hmm? It ain't called an ACTION group for nothing.

Turbines might sound a good idea but look at the costs which we all will have to pay, an extra £260 per household per year at least. They are inefficient and a waste of resources which would be better placed in constructing conventional power stations. If wind generation was such a good idea why has Denmark and Germany stopped installing any more.

Turbines might sound a good idea but look at the costs which we all will have to pay, an extra £260 per household per year at least. They are inefficient and a waste of resources which would be better placed in constructing conventional power stations. If wind generation was such a good idea why has Denmark and Germany stopped installing any more.

--- John Marshall 

Well I don't know about Denmark and germany but f you think wind turbines are a waste of resources just because the materials they are made from could be used to build other conventional power stations with then you are sorely deluded.

If anything wastes resources then it wold be the coal/oil/nuclear power stations after all, how are we EVER going to get those back again? (within the space of 1000 years) EVER. There's only so much fully formed coal, oil and uranium/plutonium in the earth, how long before it runs out?

And yes they may produce more energy but its not like you can run out of wind is it? And at least tubines don't pollute the atmosphere/enviroment. Have you ever considered that it is more than likely that these conventional power stations will be the root cause of the DEATH of the human race? No I didn't think so

Oh wait! Dear god! 250 pounds! yes its a fair bit of money but on the other had there is the apocalypse to consider, so which is it going to be hmmm?

Turbines might sound a good idea but look at the costs which we all will have to pay, an extra £260 per household per year at least. They are inefficient and a waste of resources which would be better placed in constructing conventional power stations. If wind generation was such a good idea why has Denmark and Germany stopped installing any more.

--- John Marshall 

SEEM? SEEM? ARE!

Do you live in Denmark and Germany... how could you possibly know what everyone is doing everywhere...? How can you say they've stopped. Last time I checked they still are. At least Germany is. Denmark? Doesn't matter, they have tidal which is a better alternative for them.

P.S. If you think fossil fuels is a good idea, then we'll used yours long after we all die...

I'm for the Turbines, but Baumber is not one of those wretched places where you feel like you have to be aware of your surroundings the entire time.

--- Derek(guest) 

It is if you support wind turbines. After all, what do you think BWAG acrually do all the time hmm? It ain't called an ACTION group for nothing.

--- Objectivist man(guest) 

Actually Objectivist man raises a good point, what do BWAG actually DO?

destroy masts possibly....

I'm for the Turbines, but Baumber is not one of those wretched places where you feel like you have to be aware of your surroundings the entire time.

--- Derek(guest) 

It is if you support wind turbines. After all, what do you think BWAG acrually do all the time hmm? It ain't called an ACTION group for nothing.

--- Objectivist man(guest) 

Actually Objectivist man raises a good point, what do BWAG actually DO?

destroy masts possibly....

--- Realist(guest) 

Don't forget their god awful signs

I'm for the Turbines, but Baumber is not one of those wretched places where you feel like you have to be aware of your surroundings the entire time.

--- Derek(guest) 

It is if you support wind turbines. After all, what do you think BWAG acrually do all the time hmm? It ain't called an ACTION group for nothing.

--- Objectivist man(guest) 

Actually Objectivist man raises a good point, what do BWAG actually DO?

destroy masts possibly....

--- Realist(guest) 

Don't forget their god awful signs

--- Objectivist Man(guest) 

whoever is the crackot chairman should rename it the baumber scociety of tight people who cant thnik of creative signs and are wanabee terrorists because they dont like turbines. They look ok and to be fair if you live in baumber can the price of your house sink any lower

Wot more insults... you have a really wide capacity for intelligent debate...

you have a really wide capacity for intelligent debate...

--- mmmm(guest) 

Well it has to come from somewhere and it's definitely not going to be from in the know...

you have a really wide capacity for intelligent debate...

--- mmmm(guest) 

Well it has to come from somewhere and it's definitely not going to be from in the know...

--- Enlightened one(guest) 

more insults how enlightening......

Oh wait! Dear god! 250 pounds! yes its a fair bit of money but on the other had there is the apocalypse to consider, so which is it going to be hmmm?

--- Science dude(guest) 

HA! The apocalypse to consider! And prize for the most outstanding hyperbole goes to...you! Hurrah! Round of applause for the Science dude who is expecting a biblical apocalypse. Sweet sweet irony.

--- Objectivist man(guest) 

Actually Objectivist man raises a good point, what do BWAG actually DO?

destroy masts possibly....

--- Realist(guest) 

Ooooooh. And hello defamation.

Actually Objectivist man raises a good point, what do BWAG actually DO?

destroy masts possibly....

--- Realist(guest) 

Don't forget their god awful signs

--- Objectivist Man(guest) 

A very valid point!

I thought one of the main arguments here was the poor visual amenity of the instalation. And what have BWAG done?

Made the place look like a tip with loads of property up for sale! Looks like BWAG also sell property

Maybe they should shut up and listen to their teenagers

Actually Objectivist man raises a good point, what do BWAG actually DO?

destroy masts possibly....

--- Realist(guest) 

Don't forget their god awful signs

--- Objectivist Man(guest) 

A very valid point!

I thought one of the main arguments here was the poor visual amenity of the instalation. And what have BWAG done?

Made the place look like a tip with loads of property up for sale! Looks like BWAG also sell property

Maybe they should shut up and listen to their teenagers

--- steve at the Madhouse 

Then what steve? what on earth are the teenagers going to suggest, perhaps some more non constructive comments like yours and objectivist man, after all you are starting to sound like one of these p.r.a.t.s people raving about turbines, or perhaps you two are anyway !

--- steve at the Madhouse 

Then what steve? what on earth are the teenagers going to suggest, perhaps some more non constructive comments like yours and objectivist man, after all you are starting to sound like one of these p.r.a.t.s people raving about turbines, or perhaps you two are anyway !

I'm a little confused on who's side your on. You start by abusing the assumedly anti-BWAG poster and then call the 'people raving about turbines' (BWAG?) 'p.r.a.t.s'

--- steve at the Madhouse 

Then what steve? what on earth are the teenagers going to suggest, perhaps some more non constructive comments like yours and objectivist man, after all you are starting to sound like one of these p.r.a.t.s people raving about turbines, or perhaps you two are anyway !

I'm a little confused on who's side your on. You start by abusing the assumedly anti-BWAG poster and then call the 'people raving about turbines' (BWAG?) 'p.r.a.t.s'

--- Derek(guest) 

Oh derek, go back to sleep and we will wake you when perhaps you are a little less confused.

Hang on, hang on...3 feet tall signs are being compared to wnd turbines now? If you're so upset about the signs, why not design some 'flash' pro-windfarm signs? As for what they do, they've held meetings, met with representatives etc, I would ask what you've done to promote turbines, but I doubt you're even pro-active enough to use your bathwater for gardening? Gotta love green hypocrites, it's all social one-up manship these days...

Hang on, hang on...3 feet tall signs are being compared to wnd turbines now? If you're so upset about the signs, why not design some 'flash' pro-windfarm signs? As for what they do, they've held meetings, met with representatives etc, I would ask what you've done to promote turbines, but I doubt you're even pro-active enough to use your bathwater for gardening? Gotta love green hypocrites, it's all social one-up manship these days...

--- John Ward's Conscience(guest) 

Actually our water tank's full up thanks to all the rain! So that insult doesn't work. (P.S. we also use the washing up water on the garden too...)

Hang on, hang on...3 feet tall signs are being compared to wnd turbines now? If you're so upset about the signs, why not design some 'flash' pro-windfarm signs? As for what they do, they've held meetings, met with representatives etc, I would ask what you've done to promote turbines, but I doubt you're even pro-active enough to use your bathwater for gardening? Gotta love green hypocrites, it's all social one-up manship these days...

--- John Ward's Conscience(guest) 

Actually our water tank's full up thanks to all the rain! So that insult doesn't work. (P.S. we also use the washing up water on the garden too...)

--- Derek(guest) 

Wow. And well done you. You know what? Because of your amazing ability to conserve water maybe we won't need the turbines anymore. Global warming and climate change are no more! Derek uses rain water.

Does that insult work?

Hang on, hang on...3 feet tall signs are being compared to wnd turbines now? If you're so upset about the signs, why not design some 'flash' pro-windfarm signs? As for what they do, they've held meetings, met with representatives etc, I would ask what you've done to promote turbines, but I doubt you're even pro-active enough to use your bathwater for gardening? Gotta love green hypocrites, it's all social one-up manship these days...

--- John Ward's Conscience(guest) 

Actually our water tank's full up thanks to all the rain! So that insult doesn't work. (P.S. we also use the washing up water on the garden too...)

--- Derek(guest) 

Wow. And well done you. You know what? Because of your amazing ability to conserve water maybe we won't need the turbines anymore. Global warming and climate change are no more! Derek uses rain water.

Does that insult work?

--- I am not a plastic bag(guest) 

What? Why even post if you're going to be stupid. This guy was slating the pro-turbine people by call them green hypocrites, and I pointed out that I, myself am not. So he shouldn't make that assumption. Do us all a favour and don't bother posting if you're not going to make a point.

Hang on, hang on...3 feet tall signs are being compared to wnd turbines now? If you're so upset about the signs, why not design some 'flash' pro-windfarm signs? As for what they do, they've held meetings, met with representatives etc, I would ask what you've done to promote turbines, but I doubt you're even pro-active enough to use your bathwater for gardening? Gotta love green hypocrites, it's all social one-up manship these days...

--- John Ward's Conscience(guest) 

Actually our water tank's full up thanks to all the rain! So that insult doesn't work. (P.S. we also use the washing up water on the garden too...)

--- Derek(guest) 

Wow. And well done you. You know what? Because of your amazing ability to conserve water maybe we won't need the turbines anymore. Global warming and climate change are no more! Derek uses rain water.

Does that insult work?

--- I am not a plastic bag(guest) 

What? Why even post if you're going to be stupid. This guy was slating the pro-turbine people by call them green hypocrites, and I pointed out that I, myself am not. So he shouldn't make that assumption. Do us all a favour and don't bother posting if you're not going to make a point.

--- Derek(guest) 

My point mirrored that of the original posting. Everyone is so concerned with looking 'eco-friendly' and 'hippy-go-lucky' that they will back any ill-founded 'green policy' that makes them feel like they are making a difference. Your response to that posting demonstrated a clear reflection of this trend, to immediately jump to your own defence and quip that you re-use water and that you are not a 'green hypocrite'. Please. You collect rain water. I do not profess to be much green at all but even i collect water. To be truely green and not fall with in the original guy's assumption you need to do plenty more than that.

Please don't tell me not to post. I have seen some of the things you have posted and I don't think after some of your comments you are the person to be moderating this forum.

Wow...I mean wow. You collect water?! Give that guy a colostomy bag!

Wow...I mean wow. You collect water?! Give that guy a colostomy bag!

--- John Ward's Conscience(guest) 

What? You tried to give an example of why we (pro-turbine people) are all green hypocrites. I proved you wrong. There's no need to mock, as it was your example I crushed.

Wow...I mean wow. You collect water?! Give that guy a colostomy bag!

--- John Ward's Conscience(guest) 

What? You tried to give an example of why we (pro-turbine people) are all green hypocrites. I proved you wrong. There's no need to mock, as it was your example I crushed.

--- Derek(guest) 

Proved wrong? When was that?

And I love the line 'it was your example I crushed'. Yes Rambo. Brilliant

Actually, you made my point for me. You're so obsessed with proving how 'green' you are! I collect water, look at me, I'm special people! I recycle paper, doesn't mean I think I'm some eco warrior with an agenda to stop the new runway at Heathrow. Have you actually sat back and assessed your life to make it the most green friendly possible existence it can be? I won't comment on that, because I don't know you behind the pseudonym - but the fact still stands. Collecting water doesn't make you green; no more than gangreen turns me into an oompa lumpa.

As I said, it's the social stigma now attached to not being green that coerces people into having to prove how much better they are than everyone else by promoting their environmental kudos. Are you honestly trying to tell me that you using water saved from the washing up makes you green? Because I don't, I think it makes you feel better by being able to point a stick at those you feel to be as 'un-green' as yourself. Have you noticed all of the inverted commas I'm throwing around here? It's name calling, it's social stigmatisation and frankly it's churlish. I'm not, and never will be, the 'greenest' person on the planet - nor do I have any intention of being so. If you are truly, truly that bothered move into a tree house and live off vegetables, grown under said tree, nurtured from your own natural fertiliser.

Until we all stop using cars, all stop using carbon fuelled electricity, all stop using refrigerators (what has happened to CFC damage to the Ozone as the buzzword of the Apocolypse anyway??), stop taking flights to the Canaries we're all supposedly damned. If you want to make a difference (and I doubt you do), actually get out there and do it - stop using environment destroying energy to post your angst on a forum that is run on an electricity guzzling server ;)

Turbines might sound a good idea but look at the costs which we all will have to pay, an extra £260 per household per year at least. They are inefficient and a waste of resources which would be better placed in constructing conventional power stations. If wind generation was such a good idea why has Denmark and Germany stopped installing any more.

--- John Marshall 

I think you're missing the point, mate. "Conventional power stations" are the problem, even if, as some people are suggesting on here, turbines take some time to become carbon neutral, at least they do! In what way is a "conventional power station" carbon neutral?

Oh, and no offence, but "preserving our rural way of life" is hardly as important as stopping the climate become irrepairable, is it?

Actually, you made my point for me. You're so obsessed with proving how 'green' you are! I collect water, look at me, I'm special people! I recycle paper, doesn't mean I think I'm some eco warrior with an agenda to stop the new runway at Heathrow. Have you actually sat back and assessed your life to make it the most green friendly possible existence it can be? I won't comment on that, because I don't know you behind the pseudonym - but the fact still stands. Collecting water doesn't make you green; no more than gangreen turns me into an oompa lumpa.

As I said, it's the social stigma now attached to not being green that coerces people into having to prove how much better they are than everyone else by promoting their environmental kudos. Are you honestly trying to tell me that you using water saved from the washing up makes you green? Because I don't, I think it makes you feel better by being able to point a stick at those you feel to be as 'un-green' as yourself. Have you noticed all of the inverted commas I'm throwing around here? It's name calling, it's social stigmatisation and frankly it's churlish. I'm not, and never will be, the 'greenest' person on the planet - nor do I have any intention of being so. If you are truly, truly that bothered move into a tree house and live off vegetables, grown under said tree, nurtured from your own natural fertiliser.

Until we all stop using cars, all stop using carbon fuelled electricity, all stop using refrigerators (what has happened to CFC damage to the Ozone as the buzzword of the Apocolypse anyway??), stop taking flights to the Canaries we're all supposedly damned. If you want to make a difference (and I doubt you do), actually get out there and do it - stop using environment destroying energy to post your angst on a forum that is run on an electricity guzzling server ;)

--- John Ward's Conscience(guest) 

...I proved your ONE example wrong, that doesn't mean I don't do other stuff. Blimey.

BTW: CFC's are no longer put in fridges hence all that hype has gone now and the O-Zone is hopefully repairing itself.

Wow...how's that for a non response. That'll teach me to actually post something on here that's actually long winded and took some time to write. "Blimey I do other things". For the love of all that is white and spinny...

Wow...how's that for a non response. That'll teach me to actually post something on here that's actually long winded and took some time to write. "Blimey I do other things". For the love of all that is white and spinny...

--- John Ward's Conscience(guest) 

I'm simply stating that you seem to think that water was all I did... just HAVE to correct you.

Also, you seem to have ignore the CFC part.

and... the rest of your post was just recycled (how's that for green!)

...I have to admit I did find, the 'white and spinny' amusing...

I think certain so called contributors to this forum need to look at the bigger picture here rather than scrutinizing Derek's lifestyle. Now I don't think that I personally am I necessarily green person although I do recycle and reuse water and other such basic stuff like that. However, neitehr do I (nor Derek presumably) go out of my way to be ecologically unfriendly. Both I and Derek are suporting the Turbines because A) they are a whole lot cleaner than conventional power sources B) They have minimal impact on the enviorment as they have the potential to be aesthetically pleasing, everyone's opnion on their looks varies (I for one find wid farms a pleasant adition to the landscape and I have seen from this forum that I am not the only one) however I have yet to meet a person who enjoys the perpetual smog that spews from the towers of coal and gas power stations. They might kill one bird per year but if we are to ban the turbines for this then are cars next on the list (thinking of how many wild animals those hit and kill)

The fact that you are ignoring facts like these for lack of any half decent counter argument and have fallen to the level of mocking people for their spelling and not radically transforming their lives to become fully fledged eco warriors is quite frankly, pathetic.

I wonder, I'm not a platic bag and john ward's conscience, just how green are you?

I think I've said before I'm not particularly green...and that I never will claim to be. I turn off my lights when I don't need them, less green as opposed to wanting to pay for the electricity ;)

The point I was making (which seems to have been lost) is that it's all one up manship, but it's all a little pointless restating myself. The fact remains that wind turbines are painfully ineffecient, it would make more sense to build a nuclear power plant in Baumber. Ten points to anyone who can point out the comedy value in that statement ;)

I think certain so called contributors to this forum need to look at the bigger picture here rather than scrutinizing Derek's lifestyle. Now I don't think that I personally am I necessarily green person although I do recycle and reuse water and other such basic stuff like that. However, neitehr do I (nor Derek presumably) go out of my way to be ecologically unfriendly. Both I and Derek are suporting the Turbines because A) they are a whole lot cleaner than conventional power sources B) They have minimal impact on the enviorment as they have the potential to be aesthetically pleasing, everyone's opnion on their looks varies (I for one find wid farms a pleasant adition to the landscape and I have seen from this forum that I am not the only one) however I have yet to meet a person who enjoys the perpetual smog that spews from the towers of coal and gas power stations. They might kill one bird per year but if we are to ban the turbines for this then are cars next on the list (thinking of how many wild animals those hit and kill)

The fact that you are ignoring facts like these for lack of any half decent counter argument and have fallen to the level of mocking people for their spelling and not radically transforming their lives to become fully fledged eco warriors is quite frankly, pathetic.

I wonder, I'm not a platic bag and john ward's conscience, just how green are you?

--- Objectivist man(guest) 

I am so so sorry. I just had to highlight those errors. Think of it for your own good. Like learning. Educating. Those type of things. I am helping you realise your own errors. And for that you should be very thankful.

I am wondering. At what point did you decide in your support for Derek that he couldn't speak for himself? The fact is the only reason Derek's lifestyle was being "reviewed" was because of the fact that he started sprouting verses about his ability to save ruddy water. The entire point was that no one wanted to have to read some sanctimonious warblings about just how marvellously green he is. That was it. Comment was made on comment. This is a forum. I believe that happens. In fact, no doubt someone will reply to this (oh oh oh please do). And so the wheel turns.

I have plenty of rather valid arguments. The problem I face is that every time I reply to a comment I have to spend most of my time correcting bad grammar. Bad grammar me makes mad (please spot the deliberate mistake. Restore some faith). And then I finish correcting (as you do) and I am tired of typing and have to disappear to work. Such a hard hard life. If perhaps, and I understand that this may be a stretch, you could all spell correctly and use the grammar most learnt at primary school then my insistent corrections would cease. Give it a go. Go on. Go on. Go on.

And with regards to my "greenness", I drive a car, I fly abroad, I buy imported food. Clearly I am not very green at all. But the point is I never professed to be. I never made any kind of claim as to my wonderful contributions to the life of the planet. My comment was to someone who wanted to profess great alliance with his friend nature which was, quite frankly, boring.

I am going to be honest, it is not saving the birds that I am all that concerned with. It is the fact that these wind turbines are going to be placed in a completely useless location and produce no real difference for the sake of this planet. Offshore, up a mountain - I am not debating with you the use of turbines in such locations (add more if you like). My opposition comes from the fact that I don't believe they are going to make any ruddy difference at all. Their efficiency will be negligible at best. At very best. Opinion varies. That is because some people are wrong.

Before I finish, if anyone wants to repay the favour and find any errors with my post I would be greatly appreciative. So...er...Thanks.

Me makes mad? Was that what were searching for...?

I can't believe you're still rattling on about my reply which quashed JWC's post that suggest that us 'pro-wind turbines' people don't even save water. (Or something like that... I can't remember anymore!)

JWC: Is the comedy in your post that Nuclear reactors are ugly, cause more damage to the surrounding environment than wind turbines and produce nuclear waste that has to be disposed of. Oh, and the possibility of nuclear meltdown?

I urge all you sceptics who really do accept the energy companies assurances and see no threat to having turbines

here, to take time out and go to the above site. You will find it on the links and watch some of the videos from across the uk and the world... The story is repeated time after time, after time .. The energy companies mislead local residents in to a false sense of security, that all will be well, only to find to their costs that this is not the case.. Check out a Lincolnshire turbine group's posting The Turbines are coming. UK....

I know it seems that this maybe will fall on deaf ears, but then those people will need to really consider their motives.. This has got very little to do with any of the real serious issues we face.. Its is as Edward Leigh has said on the video on the welcome page, about a few people making a great deal of money at tax payers expense..

We will continue to oppose Enertrag every step of the way... And by the Way Dear Jan Matthiesen, Head of Offshore BWEA. I personally have never opposed any thing in my life before .. to label ordinary respectable residents, as serial complainers, ('who complain about anything dont they'), at the Kettering Seminar to the attendees representing in the main Local Authority Planners, was an absolute disgrace... You will be hearing more about this in due course...... I know you said this, I was one of those Anti Wind Farm Action Group people you were mocking... Unfortuantly for you, 'You said at least there werent any such people present'.. But Jan I was in the audience! , I heard your comments.....

I expect & really hope this post will filter up to you, that is why I am making it public knowledge

you will be hearing more about this in due course

Melvin Grosvenor..yes you replied to my email confirming my place in your seminar...

No, the irony of a nuclear power plant is that it's impossible at the site...oh I give up. I can't keep pandering to people, it's giving me serious confidence issues with the intelligence of mankind.

hi Melvin

I am going to have to correct you, in your comments about Jan Mathiesen, according to BWEA 'staff' he is not the head of Offshore operations as you say, but is in fact the head of Onshore operations. ......And clearly not employed for his PR abilities!

Hi Fen beagle yes you are correct.. In fact after I had posted it,.. I was driving the following morning i it occured to me that I might have got it round the wrong way.

For general information: Jan Mattiesen proudly announced that the Kettering Seminar was the 9th in a series thoughout the country and 1,000 planning officers, councillors and interested parties have attended.

It was a blatant exercise in pushing the BWEA's agenda forward.

He clearly stated that the planning process was taking far to long and that the ideal planning time to full planning permission should/needs to be 16 weeks.

He stated that one of the main reasons it is taking in some cases up to 5 years,... ( Laughton in Lincs) was that

well organised and funded Action groups were responsible.. so much so, that investors were becoming reluctant

to invest to gain a rapid return on their money, as that many of the applications were being put in to Judicial Review.

(Not a phrase he likes I dont think)

He also said that every available peice of un designated land should be considered.. It was the LA's responsibitly that the Government targets, not only be met but exceeded.

He stated that it is the duty of every LA and energy company ,to (once planning premission has been passed

and the site building commenced), maximise the full potential of the sites... Which not only includes increasing the number of turbines on the land holding, but also in time, up grading the turbines as the new generation of turbines come on stream. The 1st generation are the mablethorpe & conisholme size turbines, (about 90 mtrs I think, its late this sat evening and Im tired).

The 2nd generation turbines are the 130 mtrs ones.. and the 3rd generation are the monster 500 feet turbines.

If any one thinks Baumber is just about 8, Turbines @ 130 mtr you are sadly mistaken.

he also said that although 25 yrs was the maximum length of time the initial planning permission was valid for..

further permissions for up grades were .. well you know the rest...

Also as the East Midlands had a low wind resource more turbines and larger ones in time would be required.

HERE THIS IF THEY GET THEIR WAY LINCOLNSHIRE WILL BE DOMINATED BY TURBINES.. IT HAS ALREADY STARTED. THE WOLDS WILL JUST BE AN ISLAND IN THE MIDDLE OF A MASS OF WHIRLING BLADES. THIS IS THE GLORIOUS FUTURE JAN MATTHIESEN STATED WE SHOULD WELCOME. The very character of Lincolnshire is going to be determined in the next 2-3 years. WAKE UP LINCOLNSHIRE

This was information for planners only, they did not expect any Action Group people there and they said so....

I went to the seminar with an open mind expecting to gain information on the planning process ,so we are informed as we engage in the planning process... I was surprised at how blatant the PR exercise was.. especially at the attack on Action groups, who they see as a small insignificant minority of misguided people.. as I stated before who complain about anything...

I wonder if they are actually aware of local democracy and freedom of speech !.. or even care that much

They have In my view taken on the role of the Government's Task Masters, in driving through this flawed policy, without any consideration for those locals, they consider, who must be rode rough shod over...

It is, as Ive said before and Edward Leigh on the vid on the welcome page..all about making a few people very rich..

Im sorry if I sound like Im ranting, but you need to be aware of what is going on...

hi Melvin

Thank you, for the information, and for attending the meeting. Ex German Luftwaff Obergefreiter (private first class) Jan Matthiesen, is clearly a man who has big plans for Britain.

HERE THIS IF THEY GET THEIR WAY LINCOLNSHIRE WILL BE DOMINATED BY TURBINES.. IT HAS ALREADY STARTED. THE WOLDS WILL JUST BE AN ISLAND IN THE MIDDLE OF A MASS OF WHIRLING BLADES.

It would be worth comparing this (slightly exaggerated) image with the that of large parts of Lincolnshire flooding and people losing their homes altogether as sea levels rise. (Is anyone using this site in doubt that the polar ice caps are melting?)

Er...Laura, no offence but I take it you realise the difference between torrential rain and the polar ice caps melting don't you? It's not as if an ice cap was suddenly deposited slap bang in the middle of Tescos car park in Horncastle. The fact is it rained quite a bit, not that the ice cap suddenly decided to migrate to St Lawrence Street because it felt like getting freaky with the pavement.

No offence taken, I wasn't confused.

Of course not. You just confused rain with the ice caps melting, there's not a lot of confusion involved at all is there.

So, as the ice caps melt (including land ice), the sea levels rise, so coastal and low-lying areas of land are reclaimed by the sea - which is not Horncastle and Baumber, but would account for quite a bit of Lincolnshire. I think that's still described as flooding, isn't it?

Er yeah...but has it happened just yet? If it does I want Kevin Costner to save me with his catamaran. I'm intrigued to see what will happen if the sea levels increase, more sea = a more productive carbon cycle. Also more water would result in more heat being trapped in the sea and also being reflected upwards and back into space. Will global warming cause an ice age, will global darkening negate global warming...will Hull City win the Premiership!? It's all speculation until it either kills us, bores us or goes away.

As I've pointed out before, ten years ago the next death of mankind was coming from holes in the ozone layer, people don't seem to care about that now. What was it before that I wonder? Ohhhhh yeah, the rapture. Go figure, we're so good at dealing in absolutes.

Er yeah...but has it happened just yet?

Yes, it is beginning to happen - we're talking millimetres, but the average annual sea level rise has been accelerating faster than predicted.

If it does I want Kevin Costner to save me with his catamaran. I'm intrigued to see what will happen if the sea levels increase, more sea = a more productive carbon cycle. Also more water would result in more heat being trapped in the sea and also being reflected upwards and back into space. Will global warming cause an ice age,

As I understand it, the theory about a European ice age is to do with the way the ocean currents will be altered by Greenland's land-ice melting into the sea. It's plausible because a similar thing promted the last ice age in Europe when a mass of ice from North America melted into the Atlantic.

will global darkening negate global warming...will Hull City win the Premiership!? It's all speculation until it either kills us, bores us or goes away.

I don't agree that scientific predictions are the same as speculations over the footy! It's true there is a range among scientists' predictions, but the main criticism launched at the IPCC (inter-governmental panal on climate change) is that the guidance it presents to us and to governments is too conservative.

As I've pointed out before, ten years ago the next death of mankind was coming from holes in the ozone layer, people don't seem to care about that now. What was it before that I wonder? Ohhhhh yeah, the rapture. Go figure, we're so good at dealing in absolutes.

We have phased out using "ozone-eaters" (CFCs etc), thanks to the success of the Montreal Protocol. That's not so easy to do with CO2.